moby reads my mind

[vernacular_life]

From Moby's Blog

if you genuinely believe in the sanctity of life then you cannot support the death penalty
and you cannot allow people to buy automatic assault weapons
and you cannot support wars that result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
and if you genuinely believe in states rights
then you can't pass intrusive federal legislation when the states do things that you arbitrarily disagree with.

sorry to be back on politics, but this issue is very disturbing.


I can't agree more.  I guess the good thing that has come of all of this is that there's been a lot of discussion between friends/loved ones about living wills, beliefs, etc.  Communication is always good. 

One point brought up the other day when talking about this to friends is the flip side -- how many people who support reinsertion of the  feeding tube and are in support of making abortion illeagal not only support the death penalty but also have zero problem with fertiilty treatments.  If you're feelings are that only God and Nature can take a life, then can't they also be the only ones to start it?  Where does tinkering with fertility start? (anything from Green Tea to hormone injections to actual in-vitro fertilization)



ALSO, does anyone else find it a bit ironic that a woman who's brain damaged reportedly due to an eating disorder will be, in effect, starved to death? 



Just intersting points for discussion....

Comments

[harri-cady.livejournal.com]

Yes, what petrifies me most about this issue is where federal control could go almost immediately after....

[vernacular-life.livejournal.com]

i, to am horrified at what Congress could start regulating.....

[vernacular-life.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you replied -- I was really interested in your perspective on this whole matter....while I do support removing the tube, its based on what I know of the case and what I think I'd want in that situation. First, i'm with you on how much I hate that this is a left/right, red state/blue state thing. Nothing is 2 sided & I hate the way that this situation is always presented that way. This has grown from a really sad story about a family to yet another polarizing debate..

I've supported removal of the tube before the events of the past couple of weeks....I'm no doctor, and even knowing that technology/research is ever-changing, if a loved one were in a simlilar situation with no signs of improvement, I'd focus more on the quality of life rather than what might be there now or might be possible. Sure, there might be something in another 20 years that could help Terri, but who's to say what kind of a life she'd have then. If this was a case of removing the feeding tube after 2 weeks, my arguement would be completely different. If it were my decision, it wouldn't be taken lightly or quickly --
but if there came a time that it was apparant that there is no improvement, and no idea how to help them other than to continue running a resperator/feeding tube to them, then I would feel at peace with the decision to turn off the life support/feeding tube, etc. and want the same done for me. Even thought we're not 100% certain that Terri doesn't know what's going on, I would hope that if I were ever in that situation, I would be at peace with the fact that I could never go back to the life that I had.

As for the fertility aspect,
However, I also believe that God gave us technology (and natural methods, i.e., green tea) to be used for good, and I do see children, in whatever way they are conceived, to be a blessing from God. I don't know where I stand on fertility treatment -- we're early in the TTC world, and right now, don't know where I'd draw the line. Its easy from where I stand now to say "after 2 failed clomid cycles, we'd look into adoption" but who knows what we'd think if we were there. I've never looked into how the adoption process is in this country, but have heard that it's expensive and emotionally draining, and adopting an infant is much harder (and $) than an older child.

I certainly don't believe that everyone who supports the right-to-live is anti-adoption, but it does bring up good discussion..

[tinksdust.livejournal.com]

I know that the adoption topic goes in a different direction than the original post but I've always wondered why adoption has to be such an expensive process. You'd think that if people are willing to adopt, even if they can have kids on their own that they'd get some benefits and help (insurance or other wise). At least companies are allowing employees to take time off for an adopted child, although I'm not sure if it's the same amount as when you've had a baby of your own. I honestly don't know a lot of the details when it comes to adoption here or abroad. I wonder how it compares to when our parents were going through this process? I know my parents waited many years (and multiple agencies) until just the prospect of adopting me came along.

[vernacular-life.livejournal.com]

re: 'anti-adoption'....what I think I was trying to say in my convoluted way was just that I doubt there's a large contingent of pro-life supporters who completely disagree with any type of fertility treatments.

I think it's sad when couples decide that they've 'failed' to have a child and 'resort' to adoption -- but then again, it goes back to WHY you want to have a child in the first place.....'proof' of the love w/ your partner, desire to nurture and teach, sense of hope/responsibility for the future, etc. Big stuff indeed.

What makes me sad for the adoption issue is the stories of young white women who are pg and decide to put the child up for adoption often get caught up in a 'bidding war' and even then acting to get custody back after a certain number of years. BUT that's a WHOLE different discussion :)

I didn't know that some adoption fees are covered by healthcare -- that makes me restore a tiny bit of faith in our system!

[tinksdust.livejournal.com]

Someone else mentioned this in her journal today, with the opposite point of view.

I personally think that she should be able to die in peace. But this won't happen now that the media and government has gotten involved. It has brought up the issue of living wills and I hope that more people talk to their loved ones about personal wishes when it comes to a situation where you can't make decisions on your own.

There are those who say that "it's up to God to decide when it's her time". If she had a document that stated she did not want to be kept alive none of this would be an issue? Does this mean that man has more power than God if ultimately we can decide whether we want to live or die in a similar state of being? I wonder what the people wanting to keep the tube in would have thought if there was documentation that she wanted to die.

I can only hope that after this dies down (no pun intended) that the government will not try and regulate this and that so that it's harder to have your wishes be carried out if you wish to not be kept alive.

Medical technology has advanced enough that people are living longer. And it's easier to keep people alive who decades ago would have passed away. I think for me personally I look at the quality of life vs quantity of life. There's an individual choice as to when you move from one category to the other. People don't think twice about putting a pet to sleep because of some illness or suffering in life. On a very simplistic level isn't this the same thing?

[tinksdust.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know that she would have been gone long ago if she had a living will. I guess my point is that a rather simple document and communication about your wishes and none of this would be debated right now. Of course I also know if it weren't this case it'd be another one.

And as with most *big* things in the news I wonder what has been left out, embellished, etc. I still wonder (from both sides) if there's any part of the story left untold.

I think for me this issue is more what it has become than what it is if that makes sense.

[vernacular-life.livejournal.com]

the thing that's one-sided about the coverage is that I'd like to know how many instances like this happen every day that we don't know about. How many times do family members disagree on these issues? If I were were in Terri's situation, I'd hope that my parents would say that their belief is to let me keep on living, but that they knew that neither my husband nor I would want my life to be like that, and thus they'd agree to letting me go.

I can't believe that this has gone on for 20 years. I feel so bad for all aspects of the family....it seems that any 'normal' memories of Terri are superceded by her situation and the battle over her life.

[tinksdust.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I think that if one's wishes aren't made known there's more room for conflict among family members to brew. I also wonder how many other cases which are similar exist that haven't been reported by the news. It's too bad that Terri will be remembered due to the controversy surrouding her.

[cesariohaines.livejournal.com]

Everytime this pops up on the news, I look at Eric and say, "You know I want you to pull any and all plugs if this happens to me, right?" I have mentioned it to my mother and father, too. I gotta get in in writing, though. Eric and I have to do a will, might as will do living will as well.

It infuriates me that Congress felt the need to get involved. It's none of their business, and I truly feel it was completely politically motivated.

I have to think there's got to be some enormous guilt riding on her parents for wanting to keep her alive. I don't know when her eating disorder started, so I don't know if they feel some responsibility about that, but it has to contribute to their reasoning.

[tray85.livejournal.com]

I haven't really been following this - but I admit that I was baffled when they showed the protesters on the news. I honestly didn't think there was anything to protest.

Its very bizarre for me that the government has to get involved in someone's right to die! I was equally baffled when the Kavorkian (sp?) guy got into so much trouble. Seriously, we have to legislate when people want to die? (In this case, I am assuming the husband has "power of attorney" rights or whatever here).

Anyway! Its sad that there is a family dispute, but its crazy that this has gotten so political and such.